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From: Joe Korty <joe.korty@ccur•com>
To: Theodore Tso <tytso@mit•edu>, Andi Kleen <andi@firstfloor•org>,
	Arjan van de Ven <arjan@infradead•org>,
	Chris Peterson <cpeterso@cpeterso•com>,
	Herbert Xu <herbert@gondor•apana.org.au
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Re: [PATCH] drivers/net: remove network drivers' last few uses of IRQF_SAMPLE_RANDOM
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 08:57:59 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20080518125759.GA18812@tsunami.ccur.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20080518112657.GK16496@mit.edu>

On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 07:26:57AM -0400, Theodore Tso wrote:
> On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 12:13:35PM +0200, Andi Kleen wrote:
> > We don't use it for most long term keys, e.g. ssh host keys. That is
> > because even on high entropy systems /dev/random usually doesn't work
> > during distribution installation because the system has not run long
> > enough to collect significant entropy yet.
>  ...
> Hence, if you don't think the system hasn't run long enough to collect
> significant entropy, you need to distinguish between "has run long
> enough to collect entropy which is causes the entropy credits using a
> somewhat estimation system where we try to be conservative such that
> /dev/random will let you extract the number of bits you need", and
> "has run long enough to collect entropy which is unpredictable by an
> outside attacker such that host keys generated by /dev/urandom really
> are secure".
> ...
> If distributions really cared, they could very well introduce keyboard
> banging as part of the install process; but no, being able to do an
> unmanned, "turnkey" install is considered more important.  That says
> something about how much they care about security right there.

If the World really cared about security, every cpu chip
would supply a true source of random bits based on the
sampling some easily accessable quantum on-chip state,
such as the tiny fluctuations in current flow across
a resistance.  I suspect supplying this would be about
as expensive as supplying a true TSC driven directly by
the external clock -- that is, so close to zero as to
not matter.

Joe

  reply	other threads:[~2008-05-18 13:06 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 91+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-05-15  7:11 [PATCH] drivers/net: remove network drivers' last few uses of IRQF_SAMPLE_RANDOM Chris Peterson
2008-05-15 13:21 ` Alan Cox
2008-05-15 16:07   ` Brandeburg, Jesse
2008-05-15 16:39     ` Alan Cox
2008-05-15 18:14       ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-15 18:47         ` Kok, Auke
2008-05-15 19:10           ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-15 18:50         ` Rick Jones
2008-05-15 19:11           ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-15 19:55         ` [PATCH] " Jeff Garzik
2008-05-16  0:27           ` Andi Kleen
2008-05-16  9:56             ` Alan Cox
2008-05-16 10:19               ` Andi Kleen
2008-05-16 12:12                 ` Herbert Xu
2008-05-16 16:25                   ` Andi Kleen
2008-05-17  1:01                     ` Herbert Xu
2008-05-17 10:59                       ` Andi Kleen
2008-05-17 19:54                         ` Chris Peterson
2008-05-17 20:05                           ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-05-18 10:13                             ` Andi Kleen
2008-05-18 11:26                               ` Theodore Tso
2008-05-18 12:57                                 ` Joe Korty [this message]
2008-05-18 17:53                                 ` Andi Kleen
2008-05-25 15:26                                   ` Glen Turner
2008-05-19 12:29                                 ` Benny Amorsen
2008-05-18 10:08                           ` Andi Kleen
2008-05-22  9:28                     ` Helge Hafting
2008-05-16 13:20                 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-05-16 16:20                   ` Andi Kleen
2008-05-16 19:47               ` David Miller
2008-05-16 23:28         ` Rick Jones
2008-05-15 18:04     ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-15 18:17       ` Rick Jones
2008-05-15 18:31         ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-15 18:47           ` Kok, Auke
2008-05-15 19:21             ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-15 20:01               ` Chris Peterson
2008-05-15 20:16                 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-15 20:39                   ` Kok, Auke
2008-05-15 21:47                 ` Theodore Tso
2008-05-15 21:58                   ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-15 22:29                     ` Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
2008-05-15 22:44                       ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-15 23:02                         ` Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
2008-05-15 23:36                           ` Theodore Tso
2008-05-15 23:46                             ` Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
2008-05-15 23:33                         ` Theodore Tso
2008-05-15 23:58                           ` Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
2008-05-16 13:21               ` Lennart Sorensen
2008-05-16 13:40                 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-16 13:59                   ` Will Newton
2008-05-16 14:15                     ` Lennart Sorensen
2008-05-16 14:27                     ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-16 15:10                 ` Alan Cox
2008-05-16 17:36                   ` Lennart Sorensen
2008-05-16 18:11                     ` Alan Cox
2008-05-16 18:40                       ` Kok, Auke
2008-05-16 18:41                       ` Lennart Sorensen
2008-05-16 18:42                         ` Lennart Sorensen
2008-05-16 20:04                         ` Alan Cox
2008-05-16 20:39                           ` Lennart Sorensen
2008-05-16 20:46                             ` Alan Cox
2008-05-16 20:34                       ` Benny Amorsen
2008-05-25 15:02                         ` Glen Turner
2008-05-25 19:33                           ` Benny Amorsen
2008-05-17  4:55                       ` Chris Peterson
2008-05-25 15:09                         ` Glen Turner
2008-05-25 23:27                           ` Theodore Tso
2008-05-26 13:43                             ` Alejandro Riveira Fernández
2008-05-26 15:14                               ` Bill Fink
2008-05-26 21:07                                 ` Krzysztof Halasa
2008-05-26 21:52                                   ` Bill Fink
2008-05-26 22:11                                     ` Ben Hutchings
2008-05-27 16:44                                 ` Rick Jones
2008-05-30 19:50                                 ` Pavel Machek
2008-05-25 14:55             ` Glen Turner
     [not found]           ` <482C8550 <20080516161029.44ded734@core>
2008-05-16 20:08             ` Gilles Espinasse
2008-05-17 22:02               ` Adrian Bunk
2008-05-18  6:41                 ` [PATCH] drivers/net: remove network drivers' last few uses ofIRQF_SAMPLE_RANDOM Gilles Espinasse
2008-05-18  9:54                   ` Alan Cox
2008-05-18 12:02                   ` Adrian Bunk
2008-05-18 12:24                     ` Theodore Tso
2008-05-18 14:43                       ` Adrian Bunk
2008-05-15 21:55     ` [PATCH] drivers/net: remove network drivers' last few uses of IRQF_SAMPLE_RANDOM Adrian Bunk
2008-05-15 22:04       ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-15 22:27         ` Theodore Tso
2008-05-15 22:13       ` Jesper Juhl
2008-05-15 22:34         ` Theodore Tso
2008-05-15 22:57           ` Jesper Juhl
2008-05-18  0:36       ` Matt Mackall
2008-05-15 22:42     ` Jeff Garzik

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