From: Joe Korty <joe.korty@ccur•com>
To: Theodore Tso <tytso@mit•edu>, Andi Kleen <andi@firstfloor•org>,
Arjan van de Ven <arjan@infradead•org>,
Chris Peterson <cpeterso@cpeterso•com>,
Herbert Xu <herbert@gondor•apana.org.au
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Re: [PATCH] drivers/net: remove network drivers' last few uses of IRQF_SAMPLE_RANDOM
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 08:57:59 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20080518125759.GA18812@tsunami.ccur.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20080518112657.GK16496@mit.edu>
On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 07:26:57AM -0400, Theodore Tso wrote:
> On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 12:13:35PM +0200, Andi Kleen wrote:
> > We don't use it for most long term keys, e.g. ssh host keys. That is
> > because even on high entropy systems /dev/random usually doesn't work
> > during distribution installation because the system has not run long
> > enough to collect significant entropy yet.
> ...
> Hence, if you don't think the system hasn't run long enough to collect
> significant entropy, you need to distinguish between "has run long
> enough to collect entropy which is causes the entropy credits using a
> somewhat estimation system where we try to be conservative such that
> /dev/random will let you extract the number of bits you need", and
> "has run long enough to collect entropy which is unpredictable by an
> outside attacker such that host keys generated by /dev/urandom really
> are secure".
> ...
> If distributions really cared, they could very well introduce keyboard
> banging as part of the install process; but no, being able to do an
> unmanned, "turnkey" install is considered more important. That says
> something about how much they care about security right there.
If the World really cared about security, every cpu chip
would supply a true source of random bits based on the
sampling some easily accessable quantum on-chip state,
such as the tiny fluctuations in current flow across
a resistance. I suspect supplying this would be about
as expensive as supplying a true TSC driven directly by
the external clock -- that is, so close to zero as to
not matter.
Joe
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2008-05-18 13:06 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 91+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2008-05-15 7:11 [PATCH] drivers/net: remove network drivers' last few uses of IRQF_SAMPLE_RANDOM Chris Peterson
2008-05-15 13:21 ` Alan Cox
2008-05-15 16:07 ` Brandeburg, Jesse
2008-05-15 16:39 ` Alan Cox
2008-05-15 18:14 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-15 18:47 ` Kok, Auke
2008-05-15 19:10 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-15 18:50 ` Rick Jones
2008-05-15 19:11 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-15 19:55 ` [PATCH] " Jeff Garzik
2008-05-16 0:27 ` Andi Kleen
2008-05-16 9:56 ` Alan Cox
2008-05-16 10:19 ` Andi Kleen
2008-05-16 12:12 ` Herbert Xu
2008-05-16 16:25 ` Andi Kleen
2008-05-17 1:01 ` Herbert Xu
2008-05-17 10:59 ` Andi Kleen
2008-05-17 19:54 ` Chris Peterson
2008-05-17 20:05 ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-05-18 10:13 ` Andi Kleen
2008-05-18 11:26 ` Theodore Tso
2008-05-18 12:57 ` Joe Korty [this message]
2008-05-18 17:53 ` Andi Kleen
2008-05-25 15:26 ` Glen Turner
2008-05-19 12:29 ` Benny Amorsen
2008-05-18 10:08 ` Andi Kleen
2008-05-22 9:28 ` Helge Hafting
2008-05-16 13:20 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-05-16 16:20 ` Andi Kleen
2008-05-16 19:47 ` David Miller
2008-05-16 23:28 ` Rick Jones
2008-05-15 18:04 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-15 18:17 ` Rick Jones
2008-05-15 18:31 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-15 18:47 ` Kok, Auke
2008-05-15 19:21 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-15 20:01 ` Chris Peterson
2008-05-15 20:16 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-15 20:39 ` Kok, Auke
2008-05-15 21:47 ` Theodore Tso
2008-05-15 21:58 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-15 22:29 ` Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
2008-05-15 22:44 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-15 23:02 ` Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
2008-05-15 23:36 ` Theodore Tso
2008-05-15 23:46 ` Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
2008-05-15 23:33 ` Theodore Tso
2008-05-15 23:58 ` Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
2008-05-16 13:21 ` Lennart Sorensen
2008-05-16 13:40 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-16 13:59 ` Will Newton
2008-05-16 14:15 ` Lennart Sorensen
2008-05-16 14:27 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-16 15:10 ` Alan Cox
2008-05-16 17:36 ` Lennart Sorensen
2008-05-16 18:11 ` Alan Cox
2008-05-16 18:40 ` Kok, Auke
2008-05-16 18:41 ` Lennart Sorensen
2008-05-16 18:42 ` Lennart Sorensen
2008-05-16 20:04 ` Alan Cox
2008-05-16 20:39 ` Lennart Sorensen
2008-05-16 20:46 ` Alan Cox
2008-05-16 20:34 ` Benny Amorsen
2008-05-25 15:02 ` Glen Turner
2008-05-25 19:33 ` Benny Amorsen
2008-05-17 4:55 ` Chris Peterson
2008-05-25 15:09 ` Glen Turner
2008-05-25 23:27 ` Theodore Tso
2008-05-26 13:43 ` Alejandro Riveira Fernández
2008-05-26 15:14 ` Bill Fink
2008-05-26 21:07 ` Krzysztof Halasa
2008-05-26 21:52 ` Bill Fink
2008-05-26 22:11 ` Ben Hutchings
2008-05-27 16:44 ` Rick Jones
2008-05-30 19:50 ` Pavel Machek
2008-05-25 14:55 ` Glen Turner
[not found] ` <482C8550 <20080516161029.44ded734@core>
2008-05-16 20:08 ` Gilles Espinasse
2008-05-17 22:02 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-05-18 6:41 ` [PATCH] drivers/net: remove network drivers' last few uses ofIRQF_SAMPLE_RANDOM Gilles Espinasse
2008-05-18 9:54 ` Alan Cox
2008-05-18 12:02 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-05-18 12:24 ` Theodore Tso
2008-05-18 14:43 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-05-15 21:55 ` [PATCH] drivers/net: remove network drivers' last few uses of IRQF_SAMPLE_RANDOM Adrian Bunk
2008-05-15 22:04 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-05-15 22:27 ` Theodore Tso
2008-05-15 22:13 ` Jesper Juhl
2008-05-15 22:34 ` Theodore Tso
2008-05-15 22:57 ` Jesper Juhl
2008-05-18 0:36 ` Matt Mackall
2008-05-15 22:42 ` Jeff Garzik
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