From: Byungchul Park <byungchul@sk•com>
To: NeilBrown <neil@brown•name>
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Subject: Re: [PATCH v17 28/47] dept: add documentation for dept
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2025 15:38:33 +0900 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20251014063833.GA58074@system.software.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <176042183810.1793333.13639772065939276568@noble.neil.brown.name>
On Tue, Oct 14, 2025 at 05:03:58PM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Oct 2025, Byungchul Park wrote:
> > On Fri, Oct 03, 2025 at 04:55:14PM +1000, NeilBrown wrote:
> > > On Thu, 02 Oct 2025, Byungchul Park wrote:
> > > > This document describes the concept and APIs of dept.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Thanks for the documentation. I've been trying to understand it.
> >
> > You're welcome. Feel free to ask me if you have any questions.
> >
> > > > +How DEPT works
> > > > +--------------
> > > > +
> > > > +Let's take a look how DEPT works with the 1st example in the section
> > > > +'Limitation of lockdep'.
> > > > +
> > > > + context X context Y context Z
> > > > +
> > > > + mutex_lock A
> > > > + folio_lock B
> > > > + folio_lock B <- DEADLOCK
> > > > + mutex_lock A <- DEADLOCK
> > > > + folio_unlock B
> > > > + folio_unlock B
> > > > + mutex_unlock A
> > > > + mutex_unlock A
> > > > +
> > > > +Adding comments to describe DEPT's view in terms of wait and event:
> > > > +
> > > > + context X context Y context Z
> > > > +
> > > > + mutex_lock A
> > > > + /* wait for A */
> > > > + folio_lock B
> > > > + /* wait for A */
> > > > + /* start event A context */
> > > > +
> > > > + folio_lock B
> > > > + /* wait for B */ <- DEADLOCK
> > > > + /* start event B context */
> > > > +
> > > > + mutex_lock A
> > > > + /* wait for A */ <- DEADLOCK
> > > > + /* start event A context */
> > > > +
> > > > + folio_unlock B
> > > > + /* event B */
> > > > + folio_unlock B
> > > > + /* event B */
> > > > +
> > > > + mutex_unlock A
> > > > + /* event A */
> > > > + mutex_unlock A
> > > > + /* event A */
> > > > +
> > >
> > > I can't see the value of the above section.
> > > The first section with no comments is useful as it is easy to see the
> > > deadlock being investigate. The section below is useful as it add
> > > comments to explain how DEPT sees the situation. But the above section,
> > > with some but not all of the comments, does seem (to me) to add anything
> > > useful.
> >
> > I just wanted to convert 'locking terms' to 'wait and event terms' by
> > one step. However, I can remove the section you pointed out that you
> > thought was useless.
>
> But it seems you did it in two steps???
>
> If you think the middle section with some but not all of the comments
> adds value (And maybe it does - maybe I just haven't seen it yet), the
> please explain what value is being added at each step.
>
> It is currently documented as:
>
> +Adding comments to describe DEPT's view in terms of wait and event:
>
> then
>
> +Adding more supplementary comments to describe DEPT's view in detail:
>
> Maybe if you said more DEPT's view so at this point so that when we see
> the supplementary comments, we can understand how they relate to DEPT's
> view.
As you pointed out, I'd better remove the middle part so as to simplify
it. It doesn't give much information I also think.
> > > > +
> > > > + context X context Y context Z
> > > > +
> > > > + mutex_lock A
> > > > + /* might wait for A */
> > > > + /* start to take into account event A's context */
> > >
> > > What do you mean precisely by "context".
> >
> > That means one of task context, irq context, wq worker context (even
> > though it can also be considered as task context), or something.
>
> OK, that makes sense. If you provide this definition for "context"
> before you use the term, I think that will help the reader.
Thank you. I will add it.
> > > If the examples that follow It seems that the "context" for event A
> > > starts at "mutex lock A" when it (possibly) waits for a mutex and ends
> > > at "mutex unlock A" - which are both in the same process. Clearly
> > > various other events that happen between these two points in the same
> > > process could be seen as the "context" for event A.
> > >
> > > However event B starts in "context X" with "folio_lock B" and ends in
> > > "context Z" or "context Y" with "folio_unlock B". Is that right?
> >
> > Right.
> >
> > > My question then is: how do you decide which, of all the event in all
> > > the processes in all the system, between the start[S] and the end[E] are
> > > considered to be part of the "context" of event A.
> >
> > DEPT can identify the "context" of event A only *once* the event A is
> > actually executed, and builds dependencies between the event and the
> > recorded waits in the "context" of event A since [S].
>
> So a dependency is an ordered set of pairs of "context" and "wait" or
I don't get what you were trying to tell here. FWIW, DEPT focuses on
*event* contexts and, within each event context, it tracks pairs of
waits that appears since [S] and the interesting event that identifies
the event context.
> "context" and "event". "wait"s and "event"s are linked by some abstract
> identifier for the event (like lockdep's lock classes).
Yeah, kind of.
> How are the contexts abstracted. Is it just "same" or "different"
I don't get this. Can you explain in more detail?
Byungchul
> I'll try reading the document again and see how much further I get.
>
> Thanks,
> NeilBrown
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2025-10-14 6:38 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 82+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2025-10-02 8:12 [PATCH v17 00/47] DEPT(DEPendency Tracker) Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 01/47] llist: move llist_{head,node} definition to types.h Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:24 ` Greg KH
2025-10-02 13:53 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2025-10-02 23:19 ` Arnd Bergmann
2025-10-16 0:46 ` Byungchul Park
2025-10-16 7:59 ` Arnd Bergmann
2025-10-16 0:38 ` Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 02/47] dept: implement DEPT(DEPendency Tracker) Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:25 ` Greg KH
2025-10-02 12:56 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 03/47] dept: add single event dependency tracker APIs Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 04/47] dept: add lock " Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 05/47] dept: tie to lockdep and IRQ tracing Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 06/47] dept: add proc knobs to show stats and dependency graph Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 07/47] dept: distinguish each kernel context from another Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 08/47] x86_64, dept: add support CONFIG_ARCH_HAS_DEPT_SUPPORT to x86_64 Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 15:22 ` Dave Hansen
2025-10-03 1:12 ` Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 09/47] arm64, dept: add support CONFIG_ARCH_HAS_DEPT_SUPPORT to arm64 Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 11:39 ` Mark Brown
2025-10-03 1:46 ` Byungchul Park
2025-10-03 11:33 ` Mark Brown
2025-10-13 1:51 ` Byungchul Park
2025-10-03 14:36 ` Mark Rutland
2025-10-13 4:28 ` Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 10/47] dept: distinguish each work from another Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 11/47] dept: add a mechanism to refill the internal memory pools on running out Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 12/47] dept: record the latest one out of consecutive waits of the same class Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 13/47] dept: apply sdt_might_sleep_{start,end}() to wait_for_completion()/complete() Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 14/47] dept: apply sdt_might_sleep_{start,end}() to swait Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 15/47] dept: apply sdt_might_sleep_{start,end}() to waitqueue wait Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 16/47] dept: apply sdt_might_sleep_{start,end}() to hashed-waitqueue wait Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 17/47] dept: apply sdt_might_sleep_{start,end}() to dma fence Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 18/47] dept: track timeout waits separately with a new Kconfig Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 19/47] dept: apply timeout consideration to wait_for_completion()/complete() Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 20/47] dept: apply timeout consideration to swait Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 21/47] dept: apply timeout consideration to waitqueue wait Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 22/47] dept: apply timeout consideration to hashed-waitqueue wait Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 23/47] dept: apply timeout consideration to dma fence wait Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 24/47] dept: make dept able to work with an external wgen Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 25/47] dept: track PG_locked with dept Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 26/47] dept: print staged wait's stacktrace on report Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 27/47] locking/lockdep: prevent various lockdep assertions when lockdep_off()'ed Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 28/47] dept: add documentation for dept Byungchul Park
2025-10-03 2:44 ` Bagas Sanjaya
2025-10-13 1:28 ` Byungchul Park
2025-10-03 5:36 ` Jonathan Corbet
2025-10-13 1:03 ` Byungchul Park
2025-10-03 6:55 ` NeilBrown
2025-10-13 5:23 ` Byungchul Park
2025-10-14 6:03 ` NeilBrown
2025-10-14 6:38 ` Byungchul Park [this message]
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 29/47] cpu/hotplug: use a weaker annotation in AP thread Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 30/47] fs/jbd2: use a weaker annotation in journal handling Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:40 ` Jan Kara
2025-10-03 1:13 ` Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 31/47] dept: assign dept map to mmu notifier invalidation synchronization Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 32/47] dept: assign unique dept_key to each distinct dma fence caller Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 33/47] dept: make dept aware of lockdep_set_lock_cmp_fn() annotation Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 34/47] dept: make dept stop from working on debug_locks_off() Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 35/47] i2c: rename wait_for_completion callback to wait_for_completion_cb Byungchul Park
2025-10-04 16:39 ` Wolfram Sang
2025-10-13 5:27 ` Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 36/47] dept: assign unique dept_key to each distinct wait_for_completion() caller Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 37/47] completion, dept: introduce init_completion_dmap() API Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 38/47] dept: introduce a new type of dependency tracking between multi event sites Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 39/47] dept: add module support for struct dept_event_site and dept_event_site_dep Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 40/47] dept: introduce event_site() to disable event tracking if it's recoverable Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 41/47] dept: implement a basic unit test for dept Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 42/47] dept: call dept_hardirqs_off() in local_irq_*() regardless of irq state Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 43/47] rcu/update: fix same dept key collision between various types of RCU Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 44/47] dept: introduce APIs to set page usage and use subclasses_evt for the usage Byungchul Park
2025-11-19 10:53 ` Byungchul Park
2025-11-19 14:37 ` Matthew Wilcox
2025-11-20 2:09 ` Byungchul Park
2025-11-20 2:34 ` Byungchul Park
2025-11-20 5:14 ` Byungchul Park
2025-12-01 7:18 ` Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 45/47] dept: track PG_writeback with dept Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 46/47] SUNRPC: relocate struct rcu_head to the first field of struct rpc_xprt Byungchul Park
2025-10-02 8:12 ` [PATCH v17 47/47] mm: percpu: increase PERCPU_DYNAMIC_SIZE_SHIFT on DEPT and large PAGE_SIZE Byungchul Park
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