From: Jamal Hadi Salim <jhs@mojatatu•com>
To: Florian Fainelli <f.fainelli@gmail•com>, Jiri Pirko <jiri@resnulli•us>
Cc: netdev <netdev@vger•kernel.org>,
David Miller <davem@davemloft•net>,
Neil Horman <nhorman@tuxdriver•com>,
andy@greyhouse•net, tgraf@suug•ch, dborkman@redhat•com,
ogerlitz@mellanox•com, jesse@nicira•com, pshelar@nicira•com,
azhou@nicira•com, Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent•org.uk>,
Stephen Hemminger <stephen@networkplumber•org>,
jeffrey.t.kirsher@intel•com, vyasevic <vyasevic@redhat•com>,
Cong Wang <xiyou.wangcong@gmail•com>,
John Fastabend <john.r.fastabend@intel•com>,
Eric Dumazet <edumazet@google•com>,
Scott Feldman <sfeldma@cumulusnetworks•com>,
Lennert Buytenhek <buytenh@wantstofly•org>
Subject: Re: [patch net-next RFC 0/4] introduce infrastructure for support of switch chip datapath
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 08:04:20 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <532C2AC4.7080303@mojatatu.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAGVrzcbqQGGYb2Wkkekei7ivGd2XOnE+5GthLUv6_nD_oicrSQ@mail.gmail.com>
On 03/20/14 13:21, Florian Fainelli wrote:
> 2014-03-20 5:40 GMT-07:00 Jiri Pirko <jiri@resnulli•us>:
>> Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 12:49:07PM CET, jhs@mojatatu•com wrote:
>>> Hi Jiri,
>>>
>>>
>>> I think the abstraction should be a netdev and to be specific the
>>> bridge - not openvswitch. Our current tools like ifconfig, iproute2,
>>> bridge etc should continue to work.
>>
>> That is exactly the case. Nothing is specific to OVS. OVS is just a one
>> method to access the switchdev api.
>>
>> Abstraction is netdev. One netdev per each switch port and one netdev as
>> a master on the top of that representing the switch itself.
>>
Ok, so that is what a bridge is.
>> I think that the problem is that each solution serves different purpose.
>> For example DSA is for switches connected as a PHY to a MAC. That is
>> completely different case to what my switchdev API is trying to handle.
>
> I agree with Jamal here, we should try to find a solution that fits
> most users here,
Indeed. We have too many splinters already and each has its own way
of being addressed. [Did you know MacVLAN is now also a L2 device that
does bridging and a crap load of other things? A long way off from
what the original intent was.]
I think we are saying the same thing, but:
This means need for a consistent interface and abstraction.
My favorite abstraction in the kernel that i consider to be immortal
is the netdev. I can have a netdev that is implemented as a physical
ethernet port or as a tuntap or as a tunnel etc. They mostly use the
same abstraction with small differences depending on the type, f.e
a tuntap with uid, gid etc is mostly no different than my laptop
realtek ethernet port. I can control any of those the same way I
control a CAN device on a vehicle with iproute2 and the same way i
control a dummy device, ifb, veth, etc.
In otherwords, how packet processing happens (whether the netdev is
used to toast bread) or what tables or constructs a specific kind of
netdev needs (to slice bread) is only relevant to the implementation.
From user space i dont need to have 15 different APIs to manage/control
things (ok, there is ethtool - but that is just one more interface; but
we have matured enough such that if you try to use /proc or /sysfs
people will yell at you).
In my view: that (immortal) device for L2/bridging is the bridge or
maybe a more barebone version of the bridge (since it has gained a
little more weight in recent times).
>it seems to me like there are 3 switches categories:
>
> - entreprise built-in switches in NICs that support VF/PF
> - embedded/entreprise switches that support tagging (Marvell eDSA/DSA,
> Broadcom tags)
> - embedded switches that only support 802.1q VLANs
>
I had started documenting this stuff to provide some context for an
abstraction, but i had too many pre-emptions, so the document is not
complete. Both John and Vlad had provided inputs to shape it. I
could post it and take patches to it.
> The first category is more flow-oriented than control-oriented,
> whereas the last two are more "event and control" oriented where you
> usually have a system where the switch will be configured not to flood
> the CPU port if possible, but when it does, this is to perform
> specific configuration (address learning, port protection, snooping,
> authorization...).
>
>
> DSA is not designed specifically for switches which are connected to a
> MAC and appear as a regular PHY, this is how it first started, but
> nothing prevents you from using DSA with a switch that is e.g: memory
> mapped into your CPU register space, MDIO is just the transport for
> the control part.
Your view is more detail oriented than mine. My focus is to more from
a control/management abstraction level. From that perspective this
is a healthy discussion - thank you.
> For instance, if my switches support a N-bytes tag that will give me a
> reason code for receiving this frame, and a bitmap representing the
> originating port, how would you imagine this fitting into the
> openvswitch/switchdev model, aside from the netdev per-port? Do you
> think we could easily migrate existing DSA users to
> openvswitch/switchdev by handling the custom switch tag?
>
I dont think so. I think we need to have this discussion to come
up with a reasonable conclusion.
cheers,
jamal
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2014-03-21 12:04 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 125+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2014-03-19 15:33 [patch net-next RFC 0/4] introduce infrastructure for support of switch chip datapath Jiri Pirko
2014-03-19 15:33 ` [patch net-next RFC 1/4] openvswitch: split flow structures into ovs specific and generic ones Jiri Pirko
2014-03-20 13:04 ` Thomas Graf
2014-03-19 15:33 ` [patch net-next RFC 2/4] net: introduce switchdev API Jiri Pirko
2014-03-20 13:59 ` Thomas Graf
2014-03-20 14:18 ` Jiri Pirko
2014-03-20 14:43 ` Nikolay Aleksandrov
2014-03-20 15:42 ` Jiri Pirko
2014-03-19 15:33 ` [patch net-next RFC 3/4] openvswitch: Introduce support for switchdev based datapath Jiri Pirko
2014-03-19 15:33 ` [patch net-next RFC 4/4] net: introduce dummy switch Jiri Pirko
2014-03-20 11:49 ` [patch net-next RFC 0/4] introduce infrastructure for support of switch chip datapath Jamal Hadi Salim
2014-03-20 12:40 ` Jiri Pirko
2014-03-20 17:21 ` Florian Fainelli
2014-03-21 12:04 ` Jamal Hadi Salim [this message]
2014-03-22 9:48 ` Jiri Pirko
2014-03-24 23:07 ` Jamal Hadi Salim
2014-03-25 17:39 ` Neil Horman
2014-03-25 18:00 ` Thomas Graf
2014-03-25 19:35 ` Neil Horman
2014-03-25 20:11 ` Florian Fainelli
2014-03-25 20:31 ` Neil Horman
2014-03-25 21:22 ` Jamal Hadi Salim
2014-03-25 21:26 ` Thomas Graf
2014-03-25 21:42 ` Florian Fainelli
2014-03-25 21:54 ` Thomas Graf
2014-03-26 10:55 ` Neil Horman
2014-03-26 5:37 ` Roopa Prabhu
2014-03-26 10:54 ` Jamal Hadi Salim
2014-03-26 15:31 ` John W. Linville
2014-03-26 16:54 ` Roopa Prabhu
2014-03-26 16:59 ` Jiri Pirko
2014-03-26 17:29 ` Florian Fainelli
2014-03-26 17:35 ` Jiri Pirko
2014-03-26 17:58 ` Florian Fainelli
2014-03-26 18:14 ` Jiri Pirko
2014-03-26 18:29 ` Hannes Frederic Sowa
2014-03-26 18:30 ` Florian Fainelli
2014-03-26 21:51 ` Jamal Hadi Salim
2014-03-26 22:22 ` Florian Fainelli
2014-03-26 22:53 ` Jamal Hadi Salim
2014-03-26 23:16 ` Florian Fainelli
2014-03-27 6:56 ` Jiri Pirko
2014-03-27 10:39 ` Jamal Hadi Salim
2014-03-27 10:50 ` Jiri Pirko
2014-03-27 11:12 ` Jamal Hadi Salim
2014-03-27 11:16 ` Jiri Pirko
2014-03-27 14:10 ` Sergey Ryazanov
2014-03-27 16:41 ` Florian Fainelli
2014-03-27 16:57 ` Jiri Pirko
2014-03-27 16:59 ` Thomas Graf
2014-03-27 20:32 ` Sergey Ryazanov
2014-03-27 21:20 ` Florian Fainelli
2014-03-27 21:55 ` Jamal Hadi Salim
2014-03-28 6:28 ` Jiri Pirko
2014-03-30 12:08 ` Alon Harel
2014-03-27 21:41 ` Jamal Hadi Salim
2014-03-27 16:55 ` Jiri Pirko
2014-03-27 19:58 ` Sergey Ryazanov
2014-03-27 20:01 ` Florian Fainelli
2014-03-27 20:04 ` Sergey Ryazanov
2014-03-27 21:47 ` Jamal Hadi Salim
2014-03-27 21:54 ` Florian Fainelli
2014-03-27 21:59 ` Jamal Hadi Salim
2014-03-27 22:19 ` Florian Fainelli
2014-03-27 23:42 ` Thomas Graf
2014-03-27 23:46 ` Florian Fainelli
2014-03-26 17:57 ` Roopa Prabhu
2014-03-26 18:09 ` Florian Fainelli
2014-03-27 13:46 ` John W. Linville
2014-03-26 17:47 ` Roopa Prabhu
2014-03-26 18:03 ` Jiri Pirko
2014-03-26 21:27 ` Roopa Prabhu
2014-03-26 21:31 ` Jiri Pirko
2014-03-27 15:35 ` Roopa Prabhu
2014-03-27 16:10 ` Jiri Pirko
2014-04-01 19:13 ` Scott Feldman
2014-04-02 6:41 ` Jiri Pirko
2014-04-02 15:37 ` Scott Feldman
2014-04-02 14:32 ` Andy Gospodarek
2014-04-02 15:25 ` John W. Linville
2014-04-02 16:15 ` Scott Feldman
2014-04-02 16:47 ` Florian Fainelli
2014-04-02 21:52 ` Thomas Graf
2014-04-02 19:29 ` John W. Linville
2014-04-02 19:54 ` Scott Feldman
2014-04-02 20:06 ` John W. Linville
2014-04-02 20:04 ` Stephen Hemminger
2014-04-02 20:23 ` Jiri Pirko
2014-04-02 20:38 ` John W. Linville
2014-04-02 21:36 ` Thomas Graf
2014-03-25 20:56 ` Jamal Hadi Salim
2014-03-25 21:19 ` Thomas Graf
2014-03-25 21:24 ` Jamal Hadi Salim
2014-03-26 7:21 ` Jiri Pirko
2014-03-26 11:00 ` Jamal Hadi Salim
2014-03-26 11:06 ` Jamal Hadi Salim
2014-03-26 11:31 ` Jamal Hadi Salim
2014-03-26 13:20 ` Jiri Pirko
2014-03-26 13:23 ` Jamal Hadi Salim
2014-03-26 13:17 ` Jiri Pirko
2014-03-26 11:10 ` Neil Horman
2014-03-26 11:29 ` Thomas Graf
2014-03-26 12:58 ` Jamal Hadi Salim
2014-03-26 15:22 ` John W. Linville
2014-03-26 21:36 ` Jamal Hadi Salim
2014-03-26 18:21 ` Neil Horman
2014-03-26 19:11 ` Florian Fainelli
2014-03-26 22:44 ` Jamal Hadi Salim
2014-03-26 23:15 ` Thomas Graf
2014-03-26 23:21 ` Florian Fainelli
2014-03-27 15:26 ` Neil Horman
2014-03-27 21:33 ` Jamal Hadi Salim
2014-03-26 19:24 ` Hannes Frederic Sowa
2014-03-27 13:43 ` John W. Linville
2014-03-26 12:19 ` Jamal Hadi Salim
2014-03-26 15:27 ` John W. Linville
2014-03-25 18:33 ` Florian Fainelli
2014-03-25 19:40 ` Neil Horman
2014-03-25 20:00 ` Florian Fainelli
2014-03-25 21:39 ` tgraf
2014-03-25 22:08 ` Jamal Hadi Salim
2014-03-26 5:48 ` Roopa Prabhu
2014-03-25 20:46 ` Jamal Hadi Salim
2014-03-26 7:24 ` Jiri Pirko
2014-03-22 9:40 ` Jiri Pirko
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