From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation•org>
To: "Frank Ch. Eigler" <fche@redhat•com>
Cc: Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation•org>,
Stephen Rothwell <sfr@canb•auug.org.au>,
Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte•hu>,
Ananth N Mavinakayanahalli <ananth@in•ibm.com>,
Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@chello•nl>,
Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead•org>,
Fr??d??ric Weisbecker <fweisbec@gmail•com>,
LKML <linux-kernel@vger•kernel.org>,
Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis•org>,
Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo <acme@redhat•com>,
linux-next@vger•kernel.org, "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor•com>,
utrace-devel@redhat•com, Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix•de>
Subject: Re: linux-next: add utrace tree
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:35:26 -0800 (PST) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1001211826060.13231@localhost.localdomain> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20100122022255.GF22003@redhat.com>
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010, Frank Ch. Eigler wrote:
>
> Less passionate analysis would identify a long history of contribution
> by the the greater affiliated team, including via merged code and by
> and passing on requirements and experiences.
The reason I'm so passionate is that I dislike the turn the discussion was
taking, as if "utrace" was somehow _good_ because it allowed various other
interfaces to hide behind it. And I'm not at all convinced that is true.
And I really didn't want to single out system tap, I very much feel the
same way abotu some seccomp-replacement "security model that the kernel
doesn't even need to know about" thing.
So don't take the systemtap part to be the important part, it's the bigger
issue of "I'd much rather have explicit interfaces than have generic hooks
that people can then use in any random way".
I realize that my argument is very anti-thetical to the normal CS teaching
of "general-purpose is good". I often feel that very specific code with
very clearly defined (and limited) applicability is a good thing - I'd
rather have just a very specific ptrace layer that does nothing but
ptrace, than a "generic plugin layer that can be layered under ptrace and
other things".
In one case, you know exactly what the users are, and what the semantics
are going to be. In the other, you don't.
So I really want to see a very big and immediate upside from utrace.
Because to me, the "it's a generic layer with any application you want to
throw at it" is a _downside_.
Linus
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2010-01-22 2:36 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 125+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <20100119211646.GF16096@redhat.com>
2010-01-20 0:12 ` linux-next: add utrace tree Stephen Rothwell
2010-01-20 5:49 ` Ingo Molnar
2010-01-20 6:15 ` Ananth N Mavinakayanahalli
2010-01-20 6:28 ` Ingo Molnar
2010-01-20 6:40 ` Ananth N Mavinakayanahalli
2010-01-20 10:43 ` Frederic Weisbecker
2010-01-20 6:59 ` Stephen Rothwell
2010-01-20 13:24 ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2010-01-20 7:29 ` Ingo Molnar
2010-01-20 14:38 ` Stephen Rothwell
2010-01-21 1:22 ` Roland McGrath
2010-01-22 0:17 ` Stephen Rothwell
2010-01-22 0:30 ` Andrew Morton
2010-01-22 0:31 ` Andrew Morton
2010-01-22 0:51 ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2010-01-22 1:05 ` Andrew Morton
2010-01-22 1:25 ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2010-01-22 1:32 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-22 2:22 ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2010-01-22 2:35 ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2010-01-22 20:51 ` Oleg Nesterov
2010-01-23 6:04 ` Ingo Molnar
2010-01-23 12:03 ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2010-01-24 16:36 ` Thomas Gleixner
2010-01-22 1:28 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-22 5:21 ` Ananth N Mavinakayanahalli
2010-01-22 13:43 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2010-01-22 19:39 ` Oleg Nesterov
2010-01-26 13:58 ` Pavel Machek
2010-01-22 18:28 ` Oleg Nesterov
2010-01-22 20:01 ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2010-01-22 20:16 ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-01-22 21:44 ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2010-01-22 21:59 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-22 22:13 ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2010-01-23 0:11 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-23 0:22 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-23 6:20 ` Kyle Moffett
2010-01-23 11:01 ` Alan Cox
2010-01-23 11:51 ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2010-01-23 15:57 ` Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo
2010-01-23 11:23 ` Ingo Molnar
2010-01-23 11:47 ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2010-01-23 19:48 ` tytso
2010-01-24 18:01 ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2010-01-25 1:42 ` Kyle Moffett
2010-01-25 4:55 ` tytso
2010-01-25 16:52 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-25 17:02 ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2010-01-25 17:36 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-25 17:45 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-25 17:54 ` Steven Rostedt
2010-01-25 18:03 ` Alan Cox
2010-01-25 18:12 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-25 18:30 ` Steven Rostedt
2010-01-25 18:45 ` Thomas Gleixner
2010-01-25 20:34 ` Ingo Molnar
2010-01-25 20:30 ` Mark Wielaard
2010-01-25 20:42 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-26 0:02 ` Renzo Davoli
2010-01-26 0:07 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-26 16:08 ` Johannes Stezenbach
2010-01-26 16:28 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-26 16:34 ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-01-28 23:53 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2010-01-29 0:21 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-25 4:59 ` Ananth N Mavinakayanahalli
2010-01-25 10:13 ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-01-24 5:04 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-24 10:25 ` tytso
2010-01-24 13:20 ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2010-01-25 21:05 ` Tom Tromey
2010-01-25 21:41 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-26 14:21 ` Ananth N Mavinakayanahalli
2010-01-26 23:20 ` Tom Tromey
2010-01-26 23:37 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-27 6:52 ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-01-27 8:54 ` Ingo Molnar
2010-01-28 1:52 ` Jim Keniston
2010-01-28 8:55 ` Ingo Molnar
2010-01-29 0:59 ` Jim Keniston
2010-01-29 7:39 ` Ingo Molnar
2010-01-29 7:52 ` Ananth N Mavinakayanahalli
2010-01-29 7:55 ` Ananth N Mavinakayanahalli
2010-01-29 9:16 ` Ingo Molnar
2010-01-29 9:11 ` Ingo Molnar
2010-01-29 9:31 ` Ananth N Mavinakayanahalli
2010-01-29 9:51 ` Ingo Molnar
2010-01-29 18:13 ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2010-01-29 4:55 ` Ananth N Mavinakayanahalli
2010-01-29 7:42 ` Ingo Molnar
2010-01-30 17:49 ` Steven Rostedt
2010-01-30 17:59 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-02-02 6:47 ` Masami Hiramatsu
2010-01-27 10:43 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-27 10:55 ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-01-27 10:58 ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-01-27 11:04 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-27 16:01 ` Frederic Weisbecker
2010-01-27 11:05 ` Ananth N Mavinakayanahalli
2010-01-27 11:08 ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-01-27 11:20 ` Ananth N Mavinakayanahalli
2010-02-08 10:09 ` Avi Kivity
2010-01-27 11:07 ` Srikar Dronamraju
2010-01-27 13:59 ` Steven Rostedt
2010-01-27 17:42 ` H. Peter Anvin
2010-01-27 18:53 ` Steven Rostedt
2010-02-08 6:54 ` Pavel Machek
2010-02-08 9:30 ` H. Peter Anvin
2010-02-08 9:53 ` Arjan van de Ven
2010-01-27 19:18 ` H. Peter Anvin
2010-01-27 0:38 ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2010-01-26 15:00 ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2010-01-26 17:33 ` Andi Kleen
2010-01-26 18:46 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-26 21:02 ` Andi Kleen
2010-01-26 21:53 ` Oleg Nesterov
2010-01-26 22:03 ` Andi Kleen
2010-01-26 23:32 ` Oleg Nesterov
2010-01-26 21:30 ` Oleg Nesterov
2010-01-26 23:27 ` Tom Tromey
2010-01-23 8:05 ` Alexey Dobriyan
2010-01-22 17:45 ` Oleg Nesterov
2010-01-20 8:52 ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-01-20 13:01 ` Frank Ch. Eigler
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