From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation•org>
To: "Frank Ch. Eigler" <fche@redhat•com>
Cc: Oleg Nesterov <oleg@redhat•com>,
Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation•org>,
Stephen Rothwell <sfr@canb•auug.org.au>,
Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@chello•nl>,
Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead•org>,
Fr??d??ric Weisbecker <fweisbec@gmail•com>,
LKML <linux-kernel@vger•kernel.org>,
Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis•org>,
Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo <acme@redhat•com>,
linux-next@vger•kernel.org, "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor•com>,
utrace-devel@redhat•com, Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix•de>
Subject: Re: linux-next: add utrace tree
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 16:11:03 -0800 (PST) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1001221604190.13231@localhost.localdomain> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20100122221348.GA4263@redhat.com>
On Fri, 22 Jan 2010, Frank Ch. Eigler wrote:
>
> The point is that the intermediate api will allow (and, as the part
> you clipped out about utrace-gdbstub said, *already has allowed*)
> alternative plausible interfaces that coexist just fine.
And my point is that multiple interfaces are BAD.
There is one interface we _have_ to have: the traditional ptrace one. That
one we can't get away from.
"Multiple interfaces" on its own is just confusion with no upside.
You need a _reason_ to have other interfaces. They need to have that
killer feature. Just being "different" is not a feature at all.
> So all this is about *naming* utrace? It was never built "for
> tracing", but for (efficient/multiplexed) *control*. That wasn't even
> its original name -- one of your lieutenants asked roland to change it
> to utrace.
No. It's not about naming. It's about the downside of having amorphous
interfaces that apparently don't even have rules, and are then used to
implement random crap.
Yes, the SNL skit about "It's a dessert topping _and_ a floor wax" was
funny, but it was funny exactly because it was crazy.
The fact that you can do crazy things is not a good thing. You need to
find the "goodness" somewhere else, and that's what I'm trying to tell
you.
You just seem to have trouble listening.
Linus
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2010-01-23 0:11 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 125+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <20100119211646.GF16096@redhat.com>
2010-01-20 0:12 ` linux-next: add utrace tree Stephen Rothwell
2010-01-20 5:49 ` Ingo Molnar
2010-01-20 6:15 ` Ananth N Mavinakayanahalli
2010-01-20 6:28 ` Ingo Molnar
2010-01-20 6:40 ` Ananth N Mavinakayanahalli
2010-01-20 10:43 ` Frederic Weisbecker
2010-01-20 6:59 ` Stephen Rothwell
2010-01-20 13:24 ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2010-01-20 7:29 ` Ingo Molnar
2010-01-20 14:38 ` Stephen Rothwell
2010-01-21 1:22 ` Roland McGrath
2010-01-22 0:17 ` Stephen Rothwell
2010-01-22 0:30 ` Andrew Morton
2010-01-22 0:31 ` Andrew Morton
2010-01-22 0:51 ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2010-01-22 1:05 ` Andrew Morton
2010-01-22 1:25 ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2010-01-22 1:32 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-22 2:22 ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2010-01-22 2:35 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-22 20:51 ` Oleg Nesterov
2010-01-23 6:04 ` Ingo Molnar
2010-01-23 12:03 ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2010-01-24 16:36 ` Thomas Gleixner
2010-01-22 1:28 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-22 5:21 ` Ananth N Mavinakayanahalli
2010-01-22 13:43 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2010-01-22 19:39 ` Oleg Nesterov
2010-01-26 13:58 ` Pavel Machek
2010-01-22 18:28 ` Oleg Nesterov
2010-01-22 20:01 ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2010-01-22 20:16 ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-01-22 21:44 ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2010-01-22 21:59 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-22 22:13 ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2010-01-23 0:11 ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2010-01-23 0:22 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-23 6:20 ` Kyle Moffett
2010-01-23 11:01 ` Alan Cox
2010-01-23 11:51 ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2010-01-23 15:57 ` Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo
2010-01-23 11:23 ` Ingo Molnar
2010-01-23 11:47 ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2010-01-23 19:48 ` tytso
2010-01-24 18:01 ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2010-01-25 1:42 ` Kyle Moffett
2010-01-25 4:55 ` tytso
2010-01-25 16:52 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-25 17:02 ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2010-01-25 17:36 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-25 17:45 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-25 17:54 ` Steven Rostedt
2010-01-25 18:03 ` Alan Cox
2010-01-25 18:12 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-25 18:30 ` Steven Rostedt
2010-01-25 18:45 ` Thomas Gleixner
2010-01-25 20:34 ` Ingo Molnar
2010-01-25 20:30 ` Mark Wielaard
2010-01-25 20:42 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-26 0:02 ` Renzo Davoli
2010-01-26 0:07 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-26 16:08 ` Johannes Stezenbach
2010-01-26 16:28 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-26 16:34 ` Christoph Hellwig
2010-01-28 23:53 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2010-01-29 0:21 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-25 4:59 ` Ananth N Mavinakayanahalli
2010-01-25 10:13 ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-01-24 5:04 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-24 10:25 ` tytso
2010-01-24 13:20 ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2010-01-25 21:05 ` Tom Tromey
2010-01-25 21:41 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-26 14:21 ` Ananth N Mavinakayanahalli
2010-01-26 23:20 ` Tom Tromey
2010-01-26 23:37 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-27 6:52 ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-01-27 8:54 ` Ingo Molnar
2010-01-28 1:52 ` Jim Keniston
2010-01-28 8:55 ` Ingo Molnar
2010-01-29 0:59 ` Jim Keniston
2010-01-29 7:39 ` Ingo Molnar
2010-01-29 7:52 ` Ananth N Mavinakayanahalli
2010-01-29 7:55 ` Ananth N Mavinakayanahalli
2010-01-29 9:16 ` Ingo Molnar
2010-01-29 9:11 ` Ingo Molnar
2010-01-29 9:31 ` Ananth N Mavinakayanahalli
2010-01-29 9:51 ` Ingo Molnar
2010-01-29 18:13 ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2010-01-29 4:55 ` Ananth N Mavinakayanahalli
2010-01-29 7:42 ` Ingo Molnar
2010-01-30 17:49 ` Steven Rostedt
2010-01-30 17:59 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-02-02 6:47 ` Masami Hiramatsu
2010-01-27 10:43 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-27 10:55 ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-01-27 10:58 ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-01-27 11:04 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-27 16:01 ` Frederic Weisbecker
2010-01-27 11:05 ` Ananth N Mavinakayanahalli
2010-01-27 11:08 ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-01-27 11:20 ` Ananth N Mavinakayanahalli
2010-02-08 10:09 ` Avi Kivity
2010-01-27 11:07 ` Srikar Dronamraju
2010-01-27 13:59 ` Steven Rostedt
2010-01-27 17:42 ` H. Peter Anvin
2010-01-27 18:53 ` Steven Rostedt
2010-02-08 6:54 ` Pavel Machek
2010-02-08 9:30 ` H. Peter Anvin
2010-02-08 9:53 ` Arjan van de Ven
2010-01-27 19:18 ` H. Peter Anvin
2010-01-27 0:38 ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2010-01-26 15:00 ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2010-01-26 17:33 ` Andi Kleen
2010-01-26 18:46 ` Linus Torvalds
2010-01-26 21:02 ` Andi Kleen
2010-01-26 21:53 ` Oleg Nesterov
2010-01-26 22:03 ` Andi Kleen
2010-01-26 23:32 ` Oleg Nesterov
2010-01-26 21:30 ` Oleg Nesterov
2010-01-26 23:27 ` Tom Tromey
2010-01-23 8:05 ` Alexey Dobriyan
2010-01-22 17:45 ` Oleg Nesterov
2010-01-20 8:52 ` Peter Zijlstra
2010-01-20 13:01 ` Frank Ch. Eigler
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