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From: Jamal Hadi Salim <jhs-jkUAjuhPggJWk0Htik3J/w@public•gmane.org>
To: Thomas Graf <tgraf-G/eBtMaohhA@public•gmane.org>
Cc: ryazanov.s.a-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public•gmane.org,
	jasowang-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public•gmane.org,
	John Fastabend
	<john.r.fastabend-ral2JQCrhuEAvxtiuMwx3w@public•gmane.org>,
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	davem-fT/PcQaiUtIeIZ0/mPfg9Q@public•gmane.org
Subject: Re: [patch net-next v2 8/9] switchdev: introduce Netlink API
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 08:35:52 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <541D74A8.6080501@mojatatu.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20140920115140.GA3777-FZi0V3Vbi30CUdFEqe4BF2D2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>

On 09/20/14 07:51, Thomas Graf wrote:

> I fail to see the connection. You can use switch vendor SDK no matter
> how we define the kernel APIs. They already exist and have been
> designed in a way to be completely indepenedent from the kernel.
>
> Are you referring to vendor specific decisions in user space in
> general? I believe that the whole point of swdev is to provide *that*
> level of abstraction so decisions can be made in a vendor neutral way.
>

I am not against the swdev idea. I think we have disagreements
for the general classification/action interface how that should look
like - but that is resolvable with correct interfaces.
The vendor neutral way *already exists* via current netlink
abstractions that existing tools use. When we need to add new
interfaces then we should.

> I don't think anybody is saying that. P4 is likely a reality soon. But
> we definitely want hardware offload in a BPF world even if the hardware
> can't do BPF yet.
>


I dont think we have contradictions. We are speaking past each other.
You implied that in the future OVS s/w path might be based on BPF.
I implied BPF itself could be offloaded and stands on its own merit
and should work if we have the correct interface. As an example,
I dont care about P4 or OVS - but i have no problem if they use
the common interfaces provided by Linux. i.e
If i want to build  a little cpu running the BPF instruction set
and use that as my offload then that interface should work and if
it doesnt i should provide extensions.

> Not sure I understand. OVS would be a user of eBPF just like tracing,
> xt_BPF, socket filter, ...
>

Ok, we are on the same page then.

> As I said, this can be argued about. It would require to push a lot of
> context into the kernel though. The FDB offload is relatively trivial
> in comparison to the complexity OVS user space can handle. I can't think
> of any reasons why to complicate the kernel further with OVS specific
> knowledge as long as we can guarantee the vendor abstraction.
>

I disagree. OVS maybe complex in that sense (I am sorry i am making
an assumption based on what you are saying) but i dont think there is
any other kernel subsystem that has this challenge.
Note: i am pointing to fdb only because it carries the concept of "put
this in hardware and/or software". I agree the fdb maybe reasonably
simpler.

cheers,
jamal

  parent reply	other threads:[~2014-09-20 12:35 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 67+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2014-09-19 13:49 [patch net-next v2 0/9] introduce rocker switch driver with hardware accelerated datapath api Jiri Pirko
2014-09-19 13:49 ` [patch net-next v2 1/9] net: rename netdev_phys_port_id to more generic name Jiri Pirko
     [not found]   ` <1411134590-4586-2-git-send-email-jiri-rHqAuBHg3fBzbRFIqnYvSA@public.gmane.org>
2014-09-19 13:54     ` Jeff Kirsher
2014-09-19 13:49 ` [patch net-next v2 3/9] rtnl: expose physical switch id for particular device Jiri Pirko
2014-09-19 13:49 ` [patch net-next v2 4/9] net-sysfs: " Jiri Pirko
2014-09-19 13:49 ` [patch net-next v2 5/9] net: introduce dummy switch Jiri Pirko
     [not found]   ` <1411134590-4586-6-git-send-email-jiri-rHqAuBHg3fBzbRFIqnYvSA@public.gmane.org>
2014-09-20  5:21     ` Florian Fainelli
2014-09-20  7:37       ` Jiri Pirko
2014-09-19 13:49 ` [patch net-next v2 6/9] switchdev: add basic support for flow matching and actions Jiri Pirko
2014-09-20  5:32   ` Florian Fainelli
2014-09-20  7:28     ` Jiri Pirko
2014-09-19 13:49 ` [patch net-next v2 7/9] switchdev: add swdev features Jiri Pirko
2014-09-19 13:49 ` [patch net-next v2 8/9] switchdev: introduce Netlink API Jiri Pirko
2014-09-19 15:25   ` Jamal Hadi Salim
2014-09-19 15:49     ` Jiri Pirko
2014-09-19 17:57       ` Jamal Hadi Salim
2014-09-19 22:12         ` John Fastabend
2014-09-19 22:18           ` Jamal Hadi Salim
2014-09-20  5:39             ` Florian Fainelli
2014-09-20  8:25               ` Jiri Pirko
2014-09-20  8:17             ` Jiri Pirko
2014-09-20 10:19               ` Jamal Hadi Salim
2014-09-20 11:01                 ` Thomas Graf
2014-09-20 11:32                   ` Jamal Hadi Salim
2014-09-20 11:51                     ` Thomas Graf
     [not found]                       ` <20140920115140.GA3777-FZi0V3Vbi30CUdFEqe4BF2D2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
2014-09-20 12:35                         ` Jamal Hadi Salim [this message]
2014-09-22  7:53                     ` Jiri Pirko
     [not found]                       ` <20140922075337.GA1828-6KJVSR23iU488b5SBfVpbw@public.gmane.org>
2014-09-22 11:48                         ` Jamal Hadi Salim
2014-09-20  5:36           ` Florian Fainelli
2014-09-20  8:14           ` Jiri Pirko
2014-09-20 10:53             ` Thomas Graf
2014-09-20 22:50               ` Alexei Starovoitov
2014-09-22  8:13                 ` Thomas Graf
2014-09-22 15:10                   ` Tom Herbert
2014-09-22 22:17                     ` Thomas Graf
     [not found]                       ` <20140922221727.GA4708-FZi0V3Vbi30CUdFEqe4BF2D2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
2014-09-22 22:40                         ` Tom Herbert
2014-09-22 22:53                           ` Thomas Graf
2014-09-22 23:07                             ` Tom Herbert
2014-09-23  1:36                               ` John Fastabend
2014-09-23  7:19                                 ` Thomas Graf
2014-09-23 11:09                                 ` Jamal Hadi Salim
     [not found]                           ` <CA+mtBx9ZVQ5r5Hzy9-uEnk+iu+HKkOP4+VANC06Xf8VvTxktwQ-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2014-09-23  9:18                             ` Thomas Graf
2014-09-23  1:54                     ` Alexei Starovoitov
2014-09-23  2:16                       ` Tom Herbert
2014-09-23  4:11                         ` Andy Gospodarek
2014-09-23 10:11                           ` Thomas Graf
2014-09-23 15:32                           ` Or Gerlitz
2014-09-24 13:32                             ` Thomas Graf
2014-09-26 20:03                               ` Or Gerlitz
2014-09-26 21:02                                 ` Thomas Graf
2014-09-23  9:52                         ` Thomas Graf
2014-09-20  3:41       ` Roopa Prabhu
2014-09-20  8:09         ` Jiri Pirko
2014-09-20 12:39           ` Roopa Prabhu
2014-09-20  8:10         ` Scott Feldman
2014-09-20 10:31           ` Jamal Hadi Salim
     [not found]           ` <DDC24110-C3F5-470F-B9BE-1D1792415D1E-qUQiAmfTcIp+XZJcv9eMoEEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org>
2014-09-20 12:51             ` Roopa Prabhu
2014-09-20 17:21               ` Scott Feldman
2014-09-20 17:38                 ` Jiri Pirko
2014-09-21  1:30                   ` Roopa Prabhu
2014-09-19 13:49 ` [patch net-next v2 9/9] rocker: introduce rocker switch driver Jiri Pirko
     [not found] ` <1411134590-4586-1-git-send-email-jiri-rHqAuBHg3fBzbRFIqnYvSA@public.gmane.org>
2014-09-19 13:49   ` [patch net-next v2 2/9] net: introduce generic switch devices support Jiri Pirko
2014-09-19 14:15   ` [patch net-next v2 0/9] introduce rocker switch driver with hardware accelerated datapath api David Laight
     [not found]     ` <063D6719AE5E284EB5DD2968C1650D6D17495CC6-VkEWCZq2GCInGFn1LkZF6NBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
2014-09-19 14:20       ` Jiri Pirko
2014-09-20  5:37         ` Florian Fainelli
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2014-09-23  3:43 [patch net-next v2 8/9] switchdev: introduce Netlink API Alexei Starovoitov
2014-09-23 20:57 ` Tom Herbert

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